SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://www.forum.susana.org/ Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:53:25 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://www.forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://www.forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: New Study from Bangladesh - finds CLTS ineffective without subsidies - by: F H Mughal http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12972 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12972
Harry Tams has a point. Too many acronyms and abbreviations may even confuse me, at times, let alone the new users.

It would be a good idea to have acronyms, abbreviations, and even a glossary, on this forum's setup. We have 7 logos at the top. Perhaps, you can add one more. This is one good way to attract new users!!

Smiles,

F H Mughal]]>
CLTS (Community led total sanitation) and other community led approaches Sun, 19 Apr 2015 06:10:12 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: DrBates http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12971 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12971
Very interesting.

I agree definitely with the use of the word: "decomposes"....this is accurate.

We are be picking here about terms, because we want to select a name that is "defendable" and applicable to as wide a range of "technologies" or technological derivations as possible, and the situations inwhich they are built, used, operated and maintained.

If you see the above thread, another poster talks about of course the conditions necessary for "true" composting to occur (in the traditional use of the word) which includes,

control of:

temperature
oxygen
carbon/nitrogen ratio
moisture,
and
time.

Some will include the importance of the
other 2 macro-nutrients of phosphorus and potassium (in addition to nitrogen),

and the true agronomist will remind you of the importance of

micro-nutrients.


The multrum clivus is one of the only true on-site sanitation systems that is built to attempt to control some of those parameters. It lacks complete aeration and mixing (which is partially mimicked by the solids moving down the slanted slope and some aeration features built in.

To truly compost, you must turn the pile or do something to introduce oxygen properly

Sounds though your composter is doing some of that , so that is great. Would love to see some info on your model.]]>
Composting processes Sun, 19 Apr 2015 05:35:25 +0000
Re: New Study from Bangladesh - finds CLTS ineffective without subsidies - by: HarryTams http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12970 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12970 Harry Tams
Tasmania]]>
CLTS (Community led total sanitation) and other community led approaches Sat, 18 Apr 2015 23:44:42 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: Ecotoiletman http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12969 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12969 That's my view, but then I am no expert.]]> Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:26:11 +0000 Re: ABR-CW quick sizing tool - by: christoph http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12968 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12968 ... just to have an idea about volume and space.
  • 12 h detention time for the ABR
  • 1,8 m²/hab. for a vertical flow sand filter wetland, 3m²/hab. horizontal flow.



For warm climates
CP]]>
Biogas sanitation systems and DEWATS Sat, 18 Apr 2015 13:58:54 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: DrBates http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12967 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12967
Lots of laughs David Allen....I was talking to Joe and telling him how to address me.

To make things simple, if there is not another "David", people can just call me plain David, or if they want to put an "e" on the end for the Spanish pronunciation, we can do that:

Davide' ( I do like Davide' as a nickname, even though some sources say there is no "e").


Look forward to seeing your data.

Davide']]>
Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 13:36:46 +0000
Why don't we see much pits made out of car tires ? - by: ben http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12966-why-dont-we-see-much-pits-made-out-of-car-tires-#12966 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12966-why-dont-we-see-much-pits-made-out-of-car-tires-#12966
I'm sure a discussion already took place about this subject, but is there a reason we don't see that many latrine pits made out of old car tires ?
This is discovering a documentary about "" from michael reynolds, that I discovered car tires potential with a bit of shame not having though of it before for pits construction.

Wishing you a good day,

Ben]]>
CLTS (Community led total sanitation) and other community led approaches Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:21:26 +0000
We need a worldwide effort in the capacity development of water professionals (blog post from IWA) - by: dorothee.spuhler http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/54-wg-1-capacity-development/12965-we-need-a-worldwide-effort-in-the-capacity-development-of-water-professionals-blog-post-from-iwa#12965 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/54-wg-1-capacity-development/12965-we-need-a-worldwide-effort-in-the-capacity-development-of-water-professionals-blog-post-from-iwa#12965 www.iwa-network.org/blog2/we-need-a-worl...-water-professionals

See also some interesting outcomes from a recent IWA study on the human resource capacity gap: www.iwa-network.org/project/human-resource-capacity-gaps-study

Cheers, Dorothee]]>
WG 1 (Capacity development) Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:40:21 +0000
Re: ABR-CW quick sizing tool - by: JKMakowka http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12964 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12964 www.sswm.info/sites/default/files/refere...nd%20Tecnologies.pdf

And maybe this for wetlands:
www.sswm.info/sites/default/files/refere...ucted%20Wetlands.pdf

(www.sswm.info is a good resource for finding such documents)]]>
Biogas sanitation systems and DEWATS Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:32:20 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: joeturner http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12963 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12963
Assuming it is by fresh weight, that analysis is surprisingly low in P, high in K, quite high in N and v high in Mg. But the low % of ammonia suggests that only a relatively small amount of the N (and likely a correspondingly low amount of the other nutrients) will actually be immediately available to any crop on which it was applied. It also seems to be low in organic matter, suggesting perhaps that it still had quite a high moisture content.

Of course, we'd also need to see analysis of the soil to which it was being applied to see how much benefit it would have - but that has quite a high pH, which might limit how much could be applied, as the other David mentioned.

I don't think I'd agree on the basis of this analysis that this material has "very poor fertilizer value", the N and K values in particular seem to me to be quite high. Of course, this can only be a guess because there is no attempt to measure the availability of the nutrients.]]>
Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:29:47 +0000
ABR-CW quick sizing tool - by: Marijn Zandee http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12962 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-biogas-sanitation-systems-and-dewats/12962-abr-cw-quick-sizing-tool#12962
Does anyone have a quick and dirty sizing tool (or reference to some simple formulas) for an ABR and a Constructed wetland to treat approximately 8 m3 of waste water per day? The BOD is probably around 250 mg/L.

At this stage I need to give people some idea of the size of units we would need for this option. If it becomes a serious project, we will do actual BOD/COD analyses and hire a waste water engineer for the design of the unit.

Thanks

Marijn Zandee]]>
Biogas sanitation systems and DEWATS Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:56:04 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: DavidAlan http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12961 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12961 Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:53:19 +0000 Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: joeturner http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12960 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12960 Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:39:31 +0000 Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: DavidAlan http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12959 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-composting-processes/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=48#12959
Joe Turner said, "David can you share..."

Is Dr Bates asking to be called David, or does he want me to call him?

Is Joe Turner asking Dr Bates or me?

Confused of England...]]>
Composting processes Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:35:36 +0000
Re: New Study from Bangladesh - finds CLTS ineffective without subsidies - by: joeturner http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12958 http://www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation-and-other-community-led-approaches/12946-new-study-from-bangladesh-finds-clts-ineffective-without-subsidies#12958
On the specific point you are asking: the paper says that 380 communities of 18,254 households in 107 villages in the Tanore region were randomised to three different treatments. First the Latrine Promotion Programme, a "community motivation and health information campaign", second the programme with subsidies, third something described as "a supply-side market access intervention linking villagers with suppliers and providing information on latrine quality and availability", fourth, the supply intervention with subsidies and finally a control group which received none of the interventions. The researchers followed up a year after the intervention to see the effects.

It says the LPP followed "closely" the principles of CLTS, with a course over several days to raise awareness of sanitation issues. But it does say that the difference to the standard model was that it focussed on the importance of hygienic latrines rather than just ending Open Defecation.

In the subsidy treatment, the poorest three-quarters were entered into a lottery to receive vouchers for subsidies which represented 75% saving on the instillation of facilities. The number of winners was randomised to 25%, 50% and 75% to see the impact of intensity.

It doesn't seem to say much about what the "supply" intervention involved.

In terms of results, it says that at the baseline 78% of households had access to a latrine, and the subsidy had a 9.4% increase on latrine access. The effect on ownership was higher, with a 20% increase over the baseline.

The LPP and supply treatments (ie without subsidy) had no effect on adult OD, but adding a subsidy to the LPP led to a 22% reduction in OD rates compared to the control group.

Voucher winners were more likely to own hygienic latrines than households in communities that only had LPP, or lottery losers in subsidy villages, and voucher winners were more likely to invest it in a latrine if more neighbours also won the lottery. A lottery winner in a high intensity village is 20% more likely to own a hygienic latrine than someone in the LPP only treatment.

On this point the authors say:

The move from subsidizing 25% to subsidizing 50% of the poor produces the largest demand spillovers in our context. Asking community members to make a joint investment commitment, as in CLTS, is a potentially useful intervention, but our results suggest that this should be accompanied by targeted subsidies.


Finally they say that the study has limitations because it might not give a general indication to other populations outside of the one studied in Bangladesh, only considered one level of subsidy, did not include a subsidy-only treatment (as considered bad practice to give subsidies without education) and based OD rates on self-reporting, which could be biased. They also did not consider health outcomes.

They also say that the study allows

us to document some of general equilibrium changes operating via a social influence mechanism, but our results remain silent on wider general equilibrium effects operating via price mechanisms.


My observations are:


  • I wonder if the emphasis on latrines may have put off people who might have taken up other kinds of cheaper intervention if it had been offered
  • I wonder how they are defining 'hygienic' latrines
  • The complexity of the treatments seems to me to give quite a confusing story
  • It is not clear to me whether the reduction in OD is related to the increase in latrines (are people using subsidised latrines of their neighbours? or finding some other non-latrine way to reduce OD?)
  • I don't really understand what the 'supply' treatment is
  • Other than stating that CLTS principles were closely followed, it does not seem to indicate exactly what was involved, who did it, the quality of the intervention or if there was any variability across the group
  • I also wonder if the groups knew about each other, and whether there was any kind of disapproval effect. If the non-subsidised groups knew about the subsidies others had access to, did this mean that they were less likely to participate in the LPP programme?


If I was to write about this study, these are the kind of questions I would be asking the authors about. But, all of that said, it seems to be a properly (although rather oddly) randomised trial which compared CLTS behavioural techniques with controls and subsidies, and so perhaps addresses some of the complaints recently levelled at the World Bank report and the Indian Total Sanitation campaign study.]]>
CLTS (Community led total sanitation) and other community led approaches Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:59:43 +0000